The One With… the godmothers of green buildings. Now is the time for creativity, collaboration and leadership

In this special episode, Alex returns to his roots with two remarkable leaders who shaped the beginning of his sustainability journey. Julie Hirigoyen (former CEO of UK GBC, now advisor to investors and property companies) and Sarah Ratcliffe (CEO of Better Buildings Partnership) were co-directors of Upstream, the consultancy Alex joined back in 2006. Together, they reflect on 20 years of progress in real estate sustainability—from the creative, pioneering early days to today's systematized approaches. The conversation explores the tension between compliance and creativity, why we're still only measuring half the carbon picture, and the critical need for place-based collaboration. Julie and Sarah share their perspectives on what's needed from industry leadership, the power of grassroots action, and why reconnecting with our dependency on nature might be the mindset shift we need most.